Magdy Martínez-Solimán, Assistant Administrator and Director of the Bureau for Policy and Programme Support for the United Nations Development Program (UNDP). [Photo/China.org.cn]

China.org.cn had an exclusive interview with Mr.Magdy Martínez-Solimán, Assistant Administrator and Director of the Bureau for Policy and Programme Support for the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), ahead of the Paris climate change conference.

China.org.cn:

A new report by the WMO revealed that greenhouse gas concentrations in 2014 hit a new high again. How can we balance economic growth and climate change？

Martínez-Solimán:

The problem is that dirty growth is cheaper and faster than green growth. And green growth requires a complete transformation of economic drivers that some political leaders are simply not ready or do not have the courage to push forward. But many governments, and many public opinions, media outlets and communicators, certainly scientists, have pressed forward precisely the idea and this report of the WMO, which is one example of how the awareness about the gravity of the situation and the importance of redressing current policies, for instance, fossil fuel subsidies, is having in today’s economic decisions. So, I think that we have a movement of political decisions, technology progress, public opinion awareness, social pressure, and the persuasion of mere facts that we live by every day. If you analyze the number of premature deaths in China that are due to air pollution and water pollution, you realize that actually the type of economic growth that we are witnessing is not sustainable. That is why the agenda has been an Agenda of Sustainable Development Goals. That is why the climate talks are arriving at such a sort of critical movement in Paris. But again, what I think is the essential message is that governments are more and more aware and willing to do more and to agree on a change of course. And I think among those governments, the government of China is clearly joining the world leadership which realizes that we are on a collision course with our own planet.

China.org.cn:

A recent report by UNEP noted that the current INDCs of nations submitted to the UNFCCC is not ambitious enough to achieve the goal of keeping the temperature rise under 2 degrees. How can we further boost emissions reduction?

Martínez-Solimán:

I just participated in the conferences of all the INDCs in Rabat, Morocco. And I have seen that the last INDC that has been submitted, which I think is the INDC of Sudan, is number 140, I want to say 145. The first thing I want to say is that we need to appreciate the enormous efforts that countries have done in producing the INDCs in the first place. The INDCs are the bed rock of the national action plans that will then implement whatever agreement comes from Paris. So, first message, appreciation for the importance that these INDCs have. It’s not a small effort. Now, when you aggregate the impact of reduction of the INDCs, it’s true that we are not below 2 degrees. And therefore, you are correct in your question saying more ambition is needed. This is a very difficult discussion because, yes, it needs to add up, but who needs to make the effort? Obviously, the largest polluters are the first ones people are looking at. So, people are looking at the producers of oil, the very large economies, the United States, China and the Europeans. They are looking at the major sources of greenhouse gas emissions. And therefore, the decisions that will be taken in Paris will be extremely important.

Paris is the key to a higher level of ambition. We continue to advocate for a 2-degree legally binding commitment in Paris. Scientists are even saying that with 2 degrees we may not obtain the objectives we are looking at. They’re saying that even at 2 degrees, it might be a curve that goes too high in what we’re intending terms of preservation of the glaciers, in terms of preservation of biodiversity, and in terms of manageable climate change on the planet. But for now, let us first take stock of the INDCs, which are a good effort. Let us try and be more ambitious in Paris, which could be a good outcome. And then, I think we need to analyze this like a marathon, not like a sprint to Paris. This is a marathon where every year you have a Cop. And we need to continue making efforts as scientists provide evidence of where we are arriving at. I think some work that is ongoing in terms of a better mix of energy sources, increase of renewables, serious work in terms of the green design of buildings, better urban transformation and planning, smarter agriculture, and a more rational use of water. We need more modern technology for the control of emissions of the industry. Many measures are underway that make it possible to obtain results at the national level, and we will be working with governments on those levels.

China.org.cn:

The Copenhagen conference in 2009 failed because of the division on responsibilities and funding. Will the same problem appear in the upcoming Paris conference?

Martínez-Solimán:

The situation was very different. I was in Copenhagen, and the mood was gloomy. Police were on the streets. There was a negative perception of the work that society had been doing. Even the temperature was extremely cold and not helping the climate negotiations. It was a freeze, and I also thought the leadership was not there. If you remember, the Chinese participation was not at the level that one would have expected. Whereas, President Obama was there and all the leaders of the world were there. The situation has completely changed.

First, China’s fully engaged in the debates at the highest level of its leadership.

Second, I think that the realization of how serious the problem we are looking at has sunk in.

You mention the fund. Third, there has been a very determined action by governments to endow the Green Climate Fund.

Forth, the Green Climate Fund has actually started operating and started funding projects that address very seriously climate change. Let me give you an example. Last week, in Livingstone, Zambia, the Green Climate Fund board approved the first projects to tackle climate change with public finance. UNDP will be implementing two of these projects. One will be in Malawi, where we will be working on an early warning system to protect vulnerable communities that subsist on agriculture. And second, there will be a very large project in the Maldives to protect vulnerable communities who have a shortfall in terms of water due to climate change.

So, the scenario is completely different than the one we had in Copenhagen. Actually, the inflection, the low point was Copenhagen, but then in Cancun, already in Mexico, an agreement started to build up. And from there onwards, in Durban, we had a continuation of that agreement, in South Africa. And I think we have a good opportunity to see that agreement crystalize in Paris, which means that the future will be about the implementation of the Paris agreement if we indeed succeed in seeing the member states reach an agreement in France.

China.org.cn:

What do you think is the most important factor in achieving a successful new agreement in the Paris climate change conference?

Martínez-Solimán:

Leadership. It’s always a matter of leadership. But in the end, it is about the Africans, the economic superpowers, the Europeans, the Americans, the Canadians, the Japanese, the Indians, the Brazilians and the new emerging economies all coming together, and not only realizing how serious the problem is, but agreeing that something needs to be done about it. I think a robust agreement needs to focus on a very clear objective. So, the 2 degree bar, I think, is a good suggestion. And perhaps the key to the agreement is not seeing what we are advocating for as a problem, as a difficulty, but seeing it actually as an opportunity.

So, the economies of the future, the economies that will be competitive will be the green economies, will be the economies that create green jobs, the economies that protect their environment, the economies that will become diversified, those that will enhance their country’s beauty and their country’s attractiveness as a tourist destination and the economies that will engine their economies as attractive destinations for international workers, for managers, for talented engineers, architects, doctors, and lawyers. That is what drives the economy; that is what drives a globalized international economy. I think that can only be done if we tackle the most important issues that today are actually ruling the economy. Dirty growth today is becoming a mortgage and an obstacle to economic development. It’s a very short-term benefit with very long-term and lasting negative effects.

China.org.cn

Obviously, we can’t fully count on these governments’ financial support to set up the green climate fund. How can we guide or incentivize companies to provide funding?

Martínez-Solimán:

It’s about public money being smart enough to create the incentives for private investments to go in the right and sustainable direction. If you do not create a physical environment that makes green energy, renewable energy attractive to investors to support green energy, then logically, private money will go in one direction when government efforts go in the different direction. This is what happened with the Addis Ababa Action Plan, the discussion on financing for development, during the summer. The whole discussion went as follows. Public money will never be enough International aid or domestic resources to attain the sustainable development goals. Therefore, we need private investment, foreign investment and the investment of domestic private companies. How do we convince or attract the investors to bet their money on the sustainable economy? It’s basically about creating incentives. You can do a certain amount of things with regulations. When China says 50% of the country’s new buildings will be energy efficient, will be green, that’s a very serious incentive for the construction sector and for the urban planning sector to invest in green technologies and renewable energy sources to feed buildings which are one of the largest assets existing in the economy.

So, I don’t see the private sector contributing directly to mechanisms like the Green Climate Fund. I think that’s for governments to do. Government needs to do their part. But, I see the private sector contributing to the final result by being generous with their technology, and with the transfer of technology, by indicating to official authorities that incentives help them decide to invest in the right direction. I just mentioned before, 60% of the energy investments last year were on renewables. So, we’ve already seen that good tax breaks are actually a very clear signal for companies to invest here rather than there. If you are charged half of the taxes, or a quarter of the taxes, for electric cars that you have been for an internal combustion car, for a fuel car, or 10 times the taxes for a diesel car, a diesel truck, it’s obvious that companies will make decisions toward incentives, because they make decisions as per unit cost. They will make decisions guided by that. And that comes from decisions made by the government. Taxing or not taxing fossil fuels is a decision made entirely by the government.